Improving Efficiencies with SanMan Software: Max Coon, Toico Industries

Pete: 00:00:17

Hello, and welcome to Get Flushed. I'm Pete.

I'll be joined today by Max Coon, the founder and chief executive of Toico, one of the most valued suppliers and distributors of portable sanitation products in North America. While Max describes his journey from college graduate to CEO, this episode is actually about software.

You see, Toico has been working on a bespoke restroom software solution they call Sanitation Manager, or SanMan, and it's ready for wider release. I first spoke about restroom software on Get Flushed four years ago.

In episode 17, I discussed the pros and cons of sanitation software and listed the top ten functions that I would want the software to perform in my portable restroom business. From there, I reviewed a couple of different software platforms and I spoke to a few users.

But at the time, none of those solutions quite did everything I wanted. And even today, I still hear plenty of good and bad things about commercially available restroom software.

After recording today's episode, I think that might be about to change.

I first met with the team responsible for SanMan about a month ago, and it was a real pleasure to meet Max and record the interview I'm going to share today. Make sure you listen through to the end because Max makes an incredible offer for listeners of Get Flushed that you. Really won't want to miss. So I'm joined today by Max Coon, who's the founder and CEO of Toico Industries. Max, welcome to Get Flushed.

Max: 00:01:40

Thanks for having me, Pete.

Pete: 00:01:41

We've got a lot to discuss today, but I wondered if we might start with a brief history of Toico and your involvement and how you came to be in the position that Toico occupies today.

Max: 00:01:51

olved in the industry back in: 1992

I went to work for my father in law, who owned a rental business. He was an operator. I served a number of different roles, but one of which was purchasing.

And during that time, I found it was incredibly difficult to find products that were specifically related to our affordable sanitation business. And so that's what led to the idea of Toico.

And so in: 1997

Pete: 00:02:48

Did you have a background in purchasing before you went into that role, Max? And did you have a background in sanitation?

Max: 00:02:54

No, I did not. I was a young green college graduate.

Pete: 00:03:00

Well, you best mentioned the father in law's name. Had you?

Max: 00:03:03

He retired in, I think it was: 2005

So he's no longer himself personally involved, but still has family that is involved in sanitation in one way or another.

Pete: 00:03:20

Hats off to Ray for giving you a start in the industry.

Max: 00:03:23

Yeah, it was a baptism by fire.

Pete: 00:03:26

Certainly thrown in at the deep end.

Max: 00:03:28

Yes.

Pete: 00:03:29

So when you decided to launch the business where you were going to wholesale effectively, what was the journey like to try and find the suppliers? If you were already struggling to find them for yourself, how did you then find them to supply Toico?

Max: 00:03:43

I mean, that was difficult back in the time, you know, the Internet was in its infancy, was difficult to find stuff. And I wish I could remember the name of the catalogs that we used to go through to find, you know, manufacturers and.

And different people to make various products specifically for the industry. So it was difficult.

The first two to three years was really hard developing a product line, but eventually we got better and better at it and more refined and just better able to address what people were asking for, what people were needing.

Pete: 00:04:18

And were you running a hands on logistics business where you actually purchased and took possession of the inventory and then shipped it out? Nowadays, everybody does either just in time or even remote dispatch where they don't physically touch the goods.

Max: 00:04:34

Back then, we did. We still carry a lot of physical inventory, but we also some of the manufacturers we worked with direct shipping.

So, yeah, still pretty much very hands on, heavy inventory business.

Pete: 00:04:49

And back in the day when you first began, was it just you on your own, or did you have a team?

Max: 00:04:54

In the beginning, it was myself, and we had a single salesman, and then we expanded. I added another guy to help out in a warehouse and another gal to help out with the office administration and whatnot.

And that gal with me today, she's amazing.

Pete: 00:05:10

Excellent. What does Toico look like today?

Max: 00:05:13

So, Toico today we've got two locations, one in Utah, one in Georgia. A very broad customer base, primarily domestic, but we do stuff, you know, throughout the world as well.

A great business that feels a very specific niche for this industry.

Pete: 00:05:29

Yeah, without a doubt. I'm interested to hear that you do international shipping, because a lot of us vendors don't do that.

I'm in New Zealand, which is a long way from everywhere, and our supply chain is pretty strangulated at times. And there's a lot of products that I use that I can only buy offshore. And I struggle constantly with us shippers who won't send stuff overseas.

Max: 00:05:50

Yeah, we do in the cases that it's feasible. Right. I mean, sometimes it's just so cost prohibitive. It's just not feasible.

Pete: 00:05:58

Yeah.

Max: 00:05:59

But anywhere where it's feasible. Yeah, absolutely. We will ship pretty much anywhere in the world.

Pete: 00:06:04

And are you buying internationally as well? Are you bringing products into the states from offshore?

Max: 00:06:08

Yeah, we do have a few products that we are importing.

Pete: 00:06:12

You said before we got recording that youve actually brought your sons into the business and youre starting to step back a little bit.

Max: 00:06:18

Yeah, ive got three sons, and at this point, all three of them are involved. My youngest is coming involved in the business in the last few months, but, yeah, the other two have been here for a number of years.

It's hard to even put a timeline on that. Right. Because they would work for me in high school, and they've been involved with the business for many, many years.

And we're at the point now where, yeah, dad's been able to kind of take a step back and the boys are able to bring it forward to new generations, new technologies, stuff that us old guys kind of lack in. It's great to have them on board. And a part of this, well, it.

Pete: 00:07:02

Guarantees the future survivability of the company as well, doesn't it?

Max: 00:07:05

Absolutely.

Pete: 00:07:06

That's really important.

While the bulk of the business at Toico has been around the supplies that are used by restroom and septic operators, I understand that you've also been involved in the development of some software for portable restroom operators.

Max: 00:07:20

Yeah, we have.

And we kind of got involved in that, really, by happenstance, you know, over the years, I've had customers come to me with different ideas, product inventions and whatnot, and some work and some don't.

Over a year and a half ago or so, I had one of my long term customers, one who's become a good friend over the years, approach me with the idea of software. First, I wanted to take a look at the software, and I wanted to take a look at it without being demoed, you know what I mean?

So I took a look at the software and just seen if it was something that made sense, something that I could navigate without being persuaded through the process, I guess. And so I went through the software and I was quite impressed. Just initially.

I was able to go to his location, and this is a company that runs multiple companies across multiple states, and they're able to do so with one central headquarters and to watch the efficiency. They could operate nine separate operations, essentially from one administrative building. I was really impressed with the efficiencies of it.

Pete: 00:08:33

So was it already up and running as a software package when you first got involved?

Max: 00:08:37

Yeah. So this company, they started developing software to meet their own company needs, right?

They didn't find anything that was currently on the market that could serve the needs that they was looking for. So they originally started building this piece by piece, you know, trying to fill in voids that other software companies maybe weren't doing.

And over time, it got to the point where it became a fully functioning software to completely run a temporary sanitation business. And so when we got involved, I think the product was really, really close.

And this company, like I said, they operate nine separate companies and theyve been using this software for the past seven years. He came to me and hes like, hey, I think we have a really good product. I dont know what to do with it being in the position.

We was essentially a sales company within the portable sanitation business, because what Toico has tried to do over the years is we tried to become a resource to our customers.

If a customer calls me and he's got a question on sizing a vacuum tank, or he's got questions on troubleshooting a vacuum pump or a vacuum tank, or he's got questions on water pumps, we try to be that resource to, to provide them with the solutions that they need to solve whatever problem they currently have. And so when I looked at this software, I says, is this a product that can one bring value to my customer and to Toico at the same time?

Is it a good resource for our customers? Is it something that can help them out? And the more and more I looked at it, the more and more I liked it.

I think there were some very cutting edge ideas that I had not currently seen in softwares out there. That's how we got involved. Is this the one size fits all? No, probably not. Is it a beautiful solution for most? Absolutely. And so I really do.

I think it could provide a great resource to our customers, and ultimately that's our goal. It goes right along with what our companies always try to do, is be a resource to our customer.

Pete: 00:10:51

Max, there's two elements of that story that I'm really impressed with. The first is that the software was developed organically by somebody who was actually in the business and looking for a solution for their needs.

So it's not been designed by a web developer or somebody in the background a thousand miles away. It's been built by people on the ground pumping toilets day in, day out. That's the first observation I'd make.

And the second is that they had the courage to ask for outside help to take it forwards.

Max: 00:11:21

Yeah, absolutely. And that was one thing that impressed me. You know, this is a guy that I have tremendous admiration and respect for. Very sharp guy.

Pete: 00:11:30

The fact that the developers came to you and said, we need help to take this forward is a real testament to them, because I've met a lot of companies who've been working on their own software or their own innovations, and they're quite often really reluctant to share those because they fear they're going to be compromised or somebody else will take it over and leave them in the wake or they'll get ripped off, bottom line. And I sense that this has moved forwards as a real partnership.

Max: 00:11:54

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this is someone who shares my values. I mean, we would never compromise our integrity for a dollar. We both feel the same way.

He has no access to data, nor does he want to, but yet we've got a great partnership, and we work really, really well together.

Pete: 00:12:13

When you first got involved, Max, did it have a working title or had they branded the product?

Max: 00:12:19

Yeah, the product name was just sanitation manager.

Pete: 00:12:22

Makes sense. It's straight to the point. Does exactly what it says on the box, I suppose.

Max: 00:12:26

Yes, exactly.

Pete: 00:12:27

Is that the brand that you decided to move forward with?

Max: 00:12:30

So, yeah, I mean, we've just kind of abbreviated it. We call it SanMan. Yeah, sanitation manager. Complete end to end software for portable restroom companies.

Pete: 00:12:41

And what did the journey look like from the moment Toiko got involved until the point you were able to start to offer that to other purchases?

Max: 00:12:49

So the journey's kind of been slow, right, because it was developed using very widely accepted standard operating procedures of portable restroom operations. That was really good.

But, you know, as you start trying to take this to the masses, you understand quite quickly that you haven't addressed all the needs. Right. Maybe how they do their accounting, maybe how they do their billing. We found out there was some stuff that needed to be fleshed out.

It took several months to flesh some of those out, to the point where I think it's a great, beautiful solution for most operators.

Pete: 00:13:27

I've spoken about software several times over the course of the last three or four years, and the one thing that I've come across is that operators have a real fear that they're going to have to completely turn their business on its head in order to adopt the operating practice contained within the software they choose.

And that's a real stumbling block for a lot of pros, because they do things in a way they know works and they don't want to completely change their operating procedures to suit the software.

So are you saying in this that SanMan was designed from a practical perspective and operators don't need to tweak things perhaps as much as they might do with some of the other packages out there?

Max: 00:14:04

I mean, this is, like I said, it was designed based on standard operating procedures within the industry, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you need to change your operations to fit this software. I think this software does a very good job of allowing people to somewhat customize it to the way they do things.

Software may have many, many features that they don't use, and that's fine.

They might not use them today, but, you know, five years from now their company may look different and they may really appreciate some of those features that aren't currently being utilized.

Pete: 00:14:37

Yeah, that's really important because you want to be able to grow and build the business and not have to change software in a few years time when perhaps you've outgrown the current offering.

Max: 00:14:47

Our goal in this is to make that transitional process as smooth as possible. We're not one that's trying to sign every portable restroom operator up. We're trying to build this the right way.

In the right way is to build it slowly and to help them through that transition process with as few growing pains as as absolutely possible.

Pete: 00:15:11

Is the software designed for a particular size company or will it fit regardless of the scale of your operation?

Max: 00:15:18

Small to mid sized companies. It's an absolute perfect fit.

Pete: 00:15:22

What does it look like behind the scenes, Max? Is there a whole team of people working in a data warehouse somewhere to keep it running?

Max: 00:15:28

Yeah. So we have a team of developers that are constantly working on development.

The software itself is cloud based software hosted by Amazon on their servers. So it's very secure, constant backups, very reliable, very stable.

Pete: 00:15:46

I've had a look at the information that you sent me. I've had a good look at the website and it seems that there are a number of key elements or functions within the software.

I wonder if we can talk about those, intern. The first one is automated routing. I wonder if you can just tell us how that works.

Max: 00:16:00

Yeah, so the automated routing just lets you efficiently manage your fleet.

And through this automatic routing, it takes in account factors like service frequencies, traffic patterns, proximity to customers locations, all these different variables. And its data that's constantly being collated, whether it be from people's phones, traffic patterns, historical data, maybe constructions.

So it takes safety into consideration too when it's calculating the most efficient routing.

Pete: 00:16:34

So for the driver in the truck, max being a cloud based system, is there an app that they can load onto their phone or their tablet while they're in the truck?

Max: 00:16:40

Yeah, it is an app based system. So, you know, whether it be a phone or a tablet, it works great with either one of them.

Pete: 00:16:48

And presumably that then gives them offline functionality if they're in those remote areas where there's not a direct Internet signal.

Max: 00:16:54

Yes, it does. It still works fine offline. You know, when they don't have maybe self coverage or.

Or wiFi, and then once they come back into cell coverage or wiFi, all that data updates at that time, otherwise real time data.

Pete: 00:17:10

Presumably the office can see where everybody is in real time as well. In that case, that's correct.

If the driver gets to a restroom that they can't service for whatever reason, maybe the gates are locked or they're having concrete delivered on site and it's just too busy, can they jump the service? And will the system automatically reschedule that visit?

Max: 00:17:29

What it does, it doesn't allow them to skip that without taking some kind of an action. So within that app, you can have the option of service or bypass or whatever.

But if you bypass that, it forces you to take a photo and give some kind of an explanation. Gates lock trucks in the way, you know, the multitude of things that happen on service routes.

So when that happens, it allows you as a company to be proactive rather than reactive.

So that immediately sends an email to your dispatch, and at that point, dispatch can help you resolve that issue, or you can simply reschedule that service for later in the day or whatever works.

Pete: 00:18:11

Well, that's good as well because it gives you an evidential trial that you can share with the client, the customer as well.

Max: 00:18:17

Yeah, absolutely. So the beauty of this is everything is recorded. So if it's serviced, you get a time and date. Stampede goes in the permanent record of that customer.

So you can go back and look at histories, problems, anything.

Pete: 00:18:33

And being cloud based, there's nothing to delete. It stays in the cloud forever.

Max: 00:18:38

Indefinitely. Correct.

Pete: 00:18:40

Full track record, full history of every job you've ever been to.

Which helps if you ever have a customer dispute over billing, which is the next element that I'd like to talk about, because billing is incredibly complex. Not just the invoicing, it's the recurring bills, it's the payment tracking.

Does SanMan operate in a way that allows you to take control of your billing function?

Max: 00:19:01

Yeah, it does. So one of the features that I really love about it is the automatic invoicing.

And with the automatic invoicing, let's say all your construction jobs, week to week, you do the same thing, same service, so nothing changes. That invoice is the same in February as it in March and so on.

And so in circumstances like that, what the system does is it recognizes that and it'll automatically process that invoice. And meaning, you know, if they have a credit card on file, it'll automatically process that credit card and that payment.

If it's a customer that maybe they pay by check, it'll automatically generate an email that invoice directly to the customer.

So those are all in situations where there's no change from month to month billing, in situations where maybe they required an extra service or some action was taken that there was an additional charge, there was a change in price. So what that does is it populates on a billing page, the key accounts receivable page, and it allows you to go in there and review it.

You know, let's say the extra service was $10, and maybe the receptionist made an error, she typed in $100. So it allows you to review those changes, verify them, and process it.

And it literally takes seconds per invoice to process those changes and create the invoice.

Pete: 00:20:28

Does the software integrate with your standard accounting packages like Quickbooks and Xero?

Max: 00:20:33

Yes, it'll work with both of them online and desktop.

Pete: 00:20:37

The other aspect that I've seen software developers integrate into sanitation software especially, is some form of CRM. There an element of that to SanMan as well?

Max: 00:20:48

Yeah, it actually has a very, very good CRM build into it. I'm sure everybody out there has used a number of different CRMs. And I've used some good CRMs, I've used some bad CRMs.

But what I've never found is a good CRM that integrates smoothly with the rest of your operating system. And this CRM integrates seamlessly within the system. The CRM is one of really my favorite features of it.

Pete: 00:21:17

And is that something that the developers have built into the system, or is it an add on package that you've managed to couple together?

Max: 00:21:23

It's built in, yeah. And it does a very, very good job of allowing you to keep track of prospects, sales, whatever.

If you have marketing campaigns, you could identify all those within your CRM. Yeah, it's a very robust CRM.

Pete: 00:21:39

One of the other discussions I've had with pros is the cost of bespoke software is usually quite prohibitive for the smaller scale operators. And I wonder whether or not you've taken that into consideration when you've developed a pricing structure for SanMan.

Max: 00:21:53

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that was a big factor in us wanting to do this and being able to provide a product that virtually any size company could get into.

Because I know in the past, my experience with software, I mean, some of it, it's just, it's so expensive, it doesn't make sense.

Pete: 00:22:11

Yeah.

Max: 00:22:11

Yeah. So that was very important when we came up with not just a pricing structure, but how we was going to go about it.

One of the first things that I didn't want was a contract. I didn't want customers come in and be saddled to me for x amount of months if they weren't happy.

So I wanted to, one, have a price point that was affordable for any size operator, and two, I wanted that customer to be happy and still be with me a year from now, five years from now. That's the approach that we took at it and says, listen, this is an investment. It's going to take us a while to get this investment paid back.

But I believe if we do our job right and that customer is happy, that investment will come.

Pete: 00:23:03

It's very reassuring to know that you understand the challenges that face restroom operators, because that price barrier has been a huge hurdle. In fact, it's been a hurdle that some of the smaller operators I talk to haven't been able to overcome.

Max: 00:23:17

And it's something that we've heard for years. Right. The price of this is just prohibitive for many operators.

So we wanted to get a price point that mom and pop shop could afford to get into, as well as the midsize operations. It's very affordable, and you feel like you've made a really good investment when you're using this product.

Pete: 00:23:39

So if we've got pros listening in and they'd like to try or have a look at SanMan, what's the best way for them to get in touch, and is it possible for them to demo the unit before they actually invest in becoming a full time customer?

Max: 00:23:52

Yes, absolutely. We've got information on our webpage. Certainly they can call our numbers. They can email. They can find us on social media.

There's a number of ways they can contact us and request a demo.

And when we do that, we will set up a time and demo that product, answer any questions they might have, and proceed at that point however they deem necessary.

Pete: 00:24:15

Is there a charge for the demo, Max?

Max: 00:24:17

No, no charge for the demo.

Pete: 00:24:19

The webpage for Toico and SanMan, particularly toyco.com SanMan. I'll make sure I put that link in the notes. Could you just talk us through the onboarding process?

If somebody signs up to become a new customer of SanMan Max, what does onboarding look like for them? And particularly what is the cost and what is the time scale that they can expect to work through?

Max: 00:24:42

We're currently taking on a limited number of accounts, and we do that in order to keep our customer happy. So we don't do contracts and the other thing we don't do is we don't charge an installation fee.

So, meaning as we walk through that onboarding process with you, we're not going to charge you upfront for us to help you get through the onboarding process and start using the SanMan software.

Pete: 00:25:09

That's very clear and very important because we spoke previously about the cost of some software. Onboarding costs can be prohibitively expensive. So it's very cool that you've been able to do that on a no fee basis.

Max: 00:25:22

And we do that because we want to keep our quality top notch. We'll have a dedicated time that we set aside that particular customer we're working with.

They have 100% of our attention, and so we try to make that transition as smooth and as easy as possible.

Pete: 00:25:42

I know when I've been talking to the boys in the lead up to this, they've told me it's a very intuitive platform and it's very easy for the user to navigate their way through the screens. Does onboarding include some sort of tuition to help people master the basics before they actually swim on their own?

Max: 00:26:00

Yes, absolutely. We dedicate time to make sure the users are comfortable using the product.

So we're there in your corner, whether it be online, whether it be in person, we're there until you feel comfortable just taking it and running with it. That in itself is one of the reasons that we're able to do it without a contract. Because I'm investing everything upfront.

I'm just asking you to invest with me. And I can't ask you to invest with me if you're not satisfied. Right? And so if you're not satisfied, I haven't done my job.

That's why we do limited installations at a time. And we're not going to leave you on your own. We're not going to leave you until you're comfortable using this software.

Pete: 00:26:45

Is SanMan available purely in North America, or is it available to international operators as well?

Max: 00:26:51

Currently we're just operating in North America.

However, recently we have been doing some testing and development to be able to use this worldwide, meaning we're working on translating it to different language as well as because we use the Google Maps platform, theoretically, it could work anywhere in the world. The barrier we're up against right now is the language one, and that is in the works.

We're not there yet, but, yeah, it's something that we're currently working on, and that is exactly what our goal is with SanMan. And ultimately, yeah, we'd like to make that a worldwide platform.

Pete: 00:27:31

With the app making use of Google Maps, I'm imagining that gives you real time geo location for everything from the truck to the restrooms.

Max: 00:27:42

Sometimes these big construction sites, they may be 100 acres, right? So to put an address in isn't always that accurate.

What this system does is it allows your driver, as they deliver that unit, to geocode that exact location of where that unit's dropped off. So it's much more than just an address. It goes, it just takes it a step further.

They can click on the location and it'll automatically bring up their mapping and give them, you know, turn by turn directions on how to get to that particular unit. Maybe you got a new driver that's filling in. For someone, being able to know the exact location of units is a huge time saver.

Again, if you can cut an hour a day off of your dispatcher's time. Efficiency is key.

Pete: 00:28:35

Is the app available for iOS as well as Android, or have you chosen one over the other?

Max: 00:28:40

The app works fine on either platform. My goal is to have people use this and understand can't begin to touch the efficiency improvements that you're going to get out of this software.

Pete: 00:28:52

It's really good that you've thought about this in a very matter of fact, down to earth way from an operator's perspective.

And the one thing you want your software to do is to make your job easier, not complicate your job, and not make you have to change the way you function.

And it sounds to me like SanMan is very much pitched in that way that is very geared towards simplifying processes, increasing efficiencies, and helping the operator, whether they're in the office, or whether they're on the sales desk, or whether they're in the truck, but helping the operator do the job more efficiently and effectively.

Max: 00:29:23

The biggest goal of this software is to improve the efficiency of the company everywhere, from the prospecting stage, all the way through collecting, billing, and everything that goes in between.

Pete: 00:29:35

In the prep that we've done to get the episode ready. Max, you've made a very generous offer for listeners of Get Flushed.

Max: 00:29:42

Yeah. So we've decided to offer a dollar 500 in store credit to those who sign up for the SanMan software and mention the Get Flushed podcast.

Pete: 00:29:54

That's really generous. And is that credit available on anything in the Toico store or just on SanMan software?

Max: 00:30:00

No, that's available on anything you would find in our product offering.

Pete: 00:30:04

That's a very generous offer. I'm very grateful for that, and I'm sure the listeners will be as well. Thank you.

Max: 00:30:10

Pleasure to do so.

Pete: 00:30:11

Hey, I've really enjoyed that conversation.

Max: 00:30:13

I appreciate you having me. It's been a pleasure, and I'll look.

Pete: 00:30:16

Forward to speaking to you again soon.

Max: 00:30:18

All right. Thank you, Pete.

Pete: 00:30:19

Cool. Take care.

I'd like to thank Max, Colton and Austin for making that episode possible and for the generous offer they made for listeners. I'll put links to Toico and SanMan in the notes for the show. But if you'd like to arrange a demo, remember to mention Get Flushed.

If you're a SanMan user, why not come on the show and tell us how SanMan has helped your business? Recording is very easy. You'll get to tell the rest of the sanitation world your story, and the only cost is an hour of your time.

Please get in touch with Pete at GetFlushed dot online. Thanks for listening today. I've been Pete, and this has been Get Flushed, the world's favorite sanitation podcast.