Meet PJ Blignault: The Visionary Behind Eco-Fab's Advanced Restroom Technology

Pete: 00:00:17

Hello and welcome to Get Flushed. I'm Pete. Long term listeners of the podcast will know that over the years I've been a great champion of vacuum flushing technology.

If you listen to some of the past episodes, you'll hear several where David Andres and Marcel Bicker explain the features and benefits of the Sanitrax vacuum based system. There's also an episode featuring Anthony and Stephen Kovik from Prestige Loos.

When I visited their yard in Auckland, they spoke at length about the Sanitrax modules they've brought to New Zealand.

Instead of using gravity or large amounts of water to flush away waste, vacuum systems use a negative pressure pump to create a vacuum, which then sucks the waste from the toilet bowl with very little water required. And because they use that vacuum, there's no splashing and no odour.

Now, if you're not familiar with this terminology, you will have definitely used a vacuum flushing toilet if you've ever been to the bathroom on an aeroplane. Despite their benefits, vacuum based systems have always been hugely expensive. But my guest today is changing that.

tes. I first heard from PJ in: 2021

sevens tournament in December: 2023

Their ecofab modules offer an improved design at a much more affordable price. I'll let PJ explain more, and I'll put links to the Ecofab website in the notes for the show.

If you're in North America, I'd urge you to listen all the way through because PJ makes a great offer to restroom operators who would like to deploy as demonstration units at their events. And so, with all that in mind, let's hear more about Ecofab from PJ Blino. So I'm joined today by PJ, who's calling from Dubai, but I. PJ, is that a south african accent I heard under there?

PJ: 00:02:19

ve in Dubai. We moved here in: 2004

Pete: 00:02:25

So you've been there for a while? 20 years?

PJ: 00:02:27

Yeah, I've been there quite a while.

Pete: 00:02:29

nk we first spoke way back in: 2021

PJ: 00:02:39

I was very excited to discover your podcast. I've listened to every single episode.

Pete: 00:02:44

That's awesome.

PJ: 00:02:45

It's been very interesting.

Pete: 00:02:46

You were doing some work with our good friend David Andres back in Christmas and new year last year, and such a great loss that he's not with us anymore. But I'm so pleased you had time with him and he was able to help you develop your business and move your proposals forward.

PJ: 00:03:01

No. A massive loss. A massive loss. When he left here, my whole family said, man, that guy lives every moment like it's his last.

Pete: 00:03:10

Yeah, definitely did. So he came out to have a look at the units you manufacture on the ground at the Dubai rugby seven s, if I remember correctly.

PJ: 00:03:19

Yeah. So those units at the rugby sevens was the first time we launched our vacuum system.

We started manufacturing the vacuum system a year, and a bit before that, we worked with a finnish company that helped us design and build it, and that was our first event for us long term.

Pete: 00:03:41

Listeners of the podcast will be familiar with vacuum flushing concepts because, of course, we had the deal with Sanitrax. And Marcel came on and Dave spoke at length about the Sanitrax units.

Shall we unwind it a little bit first and talk about how you actually got into the sanitation industry right at the very beginning? PJ?

PJ: 00:03:58

Yeah, so I'm a fireman by trade.

I worked in the fire department in South Africa, and I came to Dubai as an EMT or a paramedic, whatever you call it, in whatever part of the world you are. And I worked as an EMT for a hotel group and transitioned from EMT to health and safety, worked for a big company.

And eventually I got to the end of my career path and I told my wife, look, I'm going to start a business, you know? And she said, what? I said, I don't know. We're going to try something.

It was my dad's 70th birthday in South Africa, and he had a portable toilet trailer at his birthday party. And I sat looking at the trailer with a coffee in hand and said, I haven't seen those in Dubai yet.

So I came home, did a bit of research, found that there's no such thing in Dubai. They use these 20 foot containerized units that you need a flatbed truck and a crane to move them.

I brought in a container load of toilets into Dubai and I ran it on weekends. I did everything by myself, cleaning, servicing, started everything from there, and it just took off.

Pete: 00:05:11

Were they plastic portable toilets? Pj?

PJ: 00:05:14

No, I only had trailers. The business grew from there. And at this stage, I was still working full time.

I thought they were going to fire me because I was spending so much time on the toilets and less and less time at my actual job that I told my wife, look, let's go full time. So we started the business. 20 12 13 14, 20 15, if memory serves, I resigned and went full time. And then the business just grew exponentially.

You know, every year we quadrupled the business and it went really well.

Pete: 00:05:49

Just targeting that events market in Dubai.

PJ: 00:05:52

Just the events market. I didn't have any plastic portables, only trailers.

Yeah, the market in Dubai in the Middle east, and actually most of non western world is completely different to America, Australia, New Zealand, that kind of places. I focused on trailer toilets only.

today. And that was probably: 2016

Pete: 00:06:36

And were you buying those in from outside of the UAE?

PJ: 00:06:39

importing from everywhere. In: 2015

But these toilets were only for our own use because I realized I can manufacture a toilet at a much higher standard than a factory does, at a lower rate than their sales price, because they need to put on a profit. I don't need to put on a profit. I can make this trailer top quality for my own use.

Pete: 00:07:16

Because you'll generate profit when you start to hire it out at your events.

PJ: 00:07:20

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

At that stage, we were looking at immigrating to the US, and we purchased a small business, the cheapest business we could find, importable toilets. And that happened to be in a small place called Pampa, Texas. It's up in the panhandle close to Omarillo.

And that's where my introduction to the US started. I listened to your podcast and I heard about Dave there. And the one day I contacted him, I was in Dallas, he was in Houston.

We met for lunch down in Houston, and it was a six hour lunch. And during that time, he told me, look, you need to come to the psaiden. Anybody who's anybody in the toilet industry is involved in the PSi.

I went for the first time down to San Antonio for a nuts and bolts conference. And there I realized, man, you know, there's a huge market for toilets in the US. People liked what I did.

I showed them some pictures and had some strange interactions with people. One of the guys was very harsh with me. He said, so show me some of your toilets. I showed him and he's like, what about this? What about that?

How much fresh water? How much sewage? After we were finished? He's like, well, I like them. I'll buy some.

I said, well, they're not actually for sale, you know, we only build for our own use. He's like, oh, I thought you're a salesman. Like, nope, sorry. That sort of changed my perspective a little bit.

And I thought, why not sell into the US? But of course, everything looks easier than it actually is.

t supplier in the industry in: 2014

You know, we've had issues with people putting dishwashing liquid in soap dispensers. It produces foam. And then when. Once the foam is in the pump, the pump can't generate any vacuum, so it can't pull any more water in.

And a small little stone or a ring or a lighter tampon applicator or anything, that pump stops working, guaranteed, every single time. And my whole business model was, I dropped toilets off and I leave them for the weekend, right?

I didn't have anybody on site unless they pay extra for a cleaner. I couldn't get around the fact that the pumps were not reliable enough, so I shelved that idea.

easier market than it was in: 2014

So I reached out to a few vacuum companies and I got all of these guys in Finland and I told them, look, I'll commit to buying your toilets, but you need to help me to design and build a pump system that's made for events. My philosophy with them was, whatever goes into the toilet bowl needs to come out the other side hole. I don't want it to get stuck anywhere.

And that was our design philosophy for the whole thing.

And we started building and designing and trial and error, and we went through a few iterations up to the point where we got to the rugby sevens and we launched it.

Pete: 00:11:04

Dave sent me all the WhatsApp videos of your toilets at the rugby seven s. Spoke very highly.

PJ: 00:11:10

Oh, excellent.

Pete: 00:11:11

I honestly don't think he knew what rugby sevens was.

PJ: 00:11:14

No. But blessing me, we were there probably about an hour after we finished setting up and he managed to find the sevens team from Austin, Texas.

So he latched onto them in pure Dave style. Yeah, it was amazing.

Pete: 00:11:33

He was so excited.

PJ: 00:11:34

The first day we ran the toilet. We had a bit of a crowd through it, you know, not as much as I would have liked, but we had some good football and the system ran without a hitch.

It was the end of the concert of the first night where we had a nice big crowd through it. And I told Dave, let's leave it unattended the whole day tomorrow. I put some cleaners there to clean and said, if there's any issues, give me a call.

And we took some buggies into the desert and had a good time, good taste. And that evening we got back for the concert and I mean, the whole system ran without it. Then I knew, okay, we're good.

From there we've been refining the system. February this year we exhibited for the first time our vacuum units in Daytona at the PSAI conference. And the feedback was amazing.

It's really been good.

Pete: 00:12:29

Are you manufacturing in the Middle east?

PJ: 00:12:31

We manufacture everything in Dubai. Yeah, we build our own pump systems, the toilets, the vacuum valves and all the parts for the vacuum system.

We buy from this finnish company, but we build our own tank system, pumps, everything. At the moment we use massport for the vacuum generation. Every operator in North America at least knows massport.

Their pumps are super reliable, super easy to service.

Pete: 00:12:59

And I've seen the photos and I've seen the video that Dave shot. It's a very clean looking unit. And am I right in thinking it's modular, PJ?

So you can string units together from one or two all the way up to as many as you can hook up?

PJ: 00:13:11

Yeah. It's not collapsible like the sanitrax units, yet we're working on a unit that's similar to that and that saves a bit of space.

But it's a lot more spacious inside. We only have two seats in a pod and it doesn't collapse. We can fit nine double units on a 40 foot flatbed or 45 foot flat bed.

And the pump system is the same size as a double toilet system. And I'm comfortable running 100 toilets of one of those pumps.

Pete: 00:13:44

That's quite impressive. And are you pumping it to holding tanks or to sewer or to a truck or can you do all of those things?

PJ: 00:13:51

You can do all of those things. Now I've had conflicting stories.

Some people say, well, the sewer departments don't like macerated sewage because they find it harder to catch the microplastics and all the rest. And I've had some people say, well, they don't like unmacerated sewage because it blocks up their filters or whatever.

But my view is my system is more reliable pumping things through the system than stopping if you need to pump it into the sewer itself. We build a catcher unit or a filter unit like they use in the sewer lines, to catch all the solids, all the bigger solids, and that's down the line.

That's way outside of the venue. It's not in the venue and it doesn't affect the pump at all.

Pete: 00:14:42

I've seen the Sanitrax units up at Prestige in Auckland. My overall impression is that the vacuum experience for the user is a much more pleasant toilet experience.

The downside that we've encountered in New Zealand is that our events market is very price conscious. And there's a whole history which I could share with the audience about why it's very price conscious.

And it's very difficult to persuade the event promoters and event organizers to invest in the extra money required to put vacuum flushing units on the ground. The mindset of the event industry is not willing to pay for higher end sanitation.

I wondered if that's something you've come across in Dubai, or whether you've got a different market mindset there.

PJ: 00:15:23

Dubai likes to run at a higher standard. When I start the trailer toilet business here, it didn't take them long at all to never use a plastic toilet on any event again.

And today, you hardly ever see a plastic toilet on an air vent.

They only use either 40 foot, 20 foot container units with the tanks underneath, using conventional flushing toilets that you have in your home, or they use trailerized toilets. And vacuum is new to the Middle east and to Dubai, it's a brand new market. There's hardly anybody that's ever seen event vacuum toilet.

Pete: 00:16:03

My experience is that as soon as people see it and use it, they're converted. They're just instant fans. Yeah.

PJ: 00:16:09

Part of the whole exercise with building the system is I tried to make it affordable. A lot of the smaller operators can't afford sanitrax or pop three or any of those, because they just prohibitively expensive.

Pete: 00:16:25

Very expensive, yeah.

PJ: 00:16:27

Our pump units start at $45,000. It's only got single pumps, so you don't have redundancies.

,: 3240

Pete: 00:16:58

Yeah.

PJ: 00:16:59

Now, you can start with four units if you work it out per seat, and then you take a restroom trailer, a four station or a ten station or whatever you have. Right.

Divide the price of the restroom trailer divided by the number of stations, and you'll find that we are substantially cheaper than restroom trailers.

Pete: 00:17:21

And I know without looking at any figures, that that price you've given is significantly cheaper than the Sanitrax modules that Dave and Marcel shared with with us earlier in the podcast.

PJ: 00:17:32

Yeah. And I completely understand why, you know, the vacuum toilets and the vacuum systems are designed and built for the shipping industry.

It's not built for event industry. And when you're building a mega yacht, your budget is a little bit different to someone who's arranging a concert.

Pete: 00:17:50

But there's no reason why the technology shouldn't be applied to that event market.

And, you know, certainly when I've seen it in operation, I've been blown away by just how clean and efficient and effective it is as a restroom solution. It is, and you can't match that with plastic units.

PJ: 00:18:06

We haven't explored this, but there's no reason why I can't put a vacuum toilet seat into a plastic toilet, if that's what you want. It's a very versatile system. It's very clean, and now it's very reliable. I'm more than happy to leave the system completely unattended.

Pete: 00:18:25

Have you done any work with your units into construction projects, PJ?

PJ: 00:18:29

We are actually busy today. We'll deliver the first samples of vacuum high rise units to a construction site in the UAE. It's a casino.

The first casino in the Middle east that's being built is being built in the UAE. And we have the green light to go ahead with the project following safety inspections and so on on the units. We're very excited about that.

Pete: 00:19:00

Yeah, that's really exciting.

PJ: 00:19:02

It'll be the first vacuum units in construction that I know of personally and 100% in the Middle east. It's a super clean system. It's super easy to use. Again, it's affordable.

When I sat with these guys and explained to them the system, they said, okay, how much water do we use? I said, we used 1.2 liters per flush. Now, 1.2 liters is about around a quarter gallon per flush.

He looked at me and he said, at the moment, the construction site isn't connected to the sewer. So they get tankers to come and empty their sewage tanks.

You must remember, you don't only save on the water, you also save on the sewage that you produce.

Pete: 00:19:48

Yeah, if you put less in less.

PJ: 00:19:50

Ant they said we have about 20 tankers every 24 hours, and that's 20 10,000 gallon tankers, because they've got five to 10,000 employees on site at any given time. So he said, that costs us a fortune.

Pete: 00:20:07

If you saved even 10% of the transport costs from those tankers, that would be a significant saving over the duration of a long term build. Like a casino?

PJ: 00:20:17

Yeah, I mean, it's a massive, massive saving. When we had a look at the project scope, they save money by buying the system overall.

g the system. And then it's a: 1020

We've had inquiries in Texas when they redo a refinery where we had to have 250 portable toilets on site, serviced every day. Now, if you have a project like that and you install vacuum, number one is you don't have to have all the toilets in one place.

As long as you can run a pipe from the one section to the next section to the pump, you can have the toilets upstairs, downstairs, it doesn't matter.

And you can have the sewage collection tank and the freshwater supply tank outside of the premises, so you don't need to apply for badges and go through access control and everything.

When you empty the sewerage or fill up the freshwater, you can have one or two or five or ten cleaners on site to keep the toilets cleaned and stocked. But you're servicing, it makes it so much easier. You know, you don't have to have two trucks on site all day, every day.

Pete: 00:21:38

Huge savings, all rand.

PJ: 00:21:40

We're very excited about that. The guys are working hard at the moment getting those samples done. Everything we build gets improved. Every iteration.

We improve it, we make it better. Nothing stands still. I think that's one of the positives of being a small company. We can move exceptionally fast.

Pete: 00:21:59

You've come in at a different price point. Your quality is top notch. I think the demand will be very high.

PJ: 00:22:06

PJ, our dual pump system, it's on its way to the US. It'll land there early November. As soon as it lands, we'll get it up and running.

And then we have nine double units and a pump station that are available for trial. I want to offer toilet operators in the US. If you have an event that you think you can use it on, give us a call, set up a meeting.

We'll come and have a look, discuss it with you. And we don't charge for the rental.

If you pay the transport and accommodation for one of our guys, we'll come, we'll set it up, we'll be there for the event, we'll run it with you, see how the system works and then take it from there.

Pete: 00:22:49

That's an excellent offer.

PJ: 00:22:51

Yeah.

Pete: 00:22:51

We'll put the details in at the end of the show. We'll include an email and the website link so people can have a look at the unit.

I'll maybe include links to some of the videos that Dave shot while he was at the rugby sevens with you last year.

PJ: 00:23:02

Yeah, that'll be great. That'll be great.

Pete: 00:23:05

If a customer places an order, what's the turnaround and delivery time from Dubai to the States? PJ?

PJ: 00:23:11

At the moment, Yemen is causing a bit of issues for us. So the ships don't generally go through the Suez Canal. So that adds a little bit of time to shipping.

If the Suez Canal is open, our shipping takes about 50 days. 50. So we normally tell a client four months if it goes through the sewers. If it doesn't, then we add another 20 days. Five months.

Pete: 00:23:37

So that's still a very competitive timeframe. I know people who've been waiting for over a year for a sanitation truck. BJ.

PJ: 00:23:43

Yeah. We. Increasing our capabilities and our production facility and so on, so it'll get better over time.

Pete: 00:23:52

And were you able to find the people with the right skills to manufacture in Dubai? Was that a fairly straightforward process or have you brought people in?

PJ: 00:24:00

Labour in Dubai is fairly easy. We get people from anywhere around the world. It's not an issue.

Pete: 00:24:07

What's the arab world like for bureaucracy? PJ?

PJ: 00:24:10

They want companies to come to Dubai to manufacture here and to ship into the world. So they're making it extremely easy. Everything is online now. You hardly have to visit any government office anymore.

The processes get streamlined immensely. You know, in Dubai is one of the few cities in the world where government is more efficient than private sector. We get ids issued in Dubai.

It's called Emirates ID and it's our official UAE ID. And you have to update it with the telephone suppliers, with your mobile supplier. You know, when your id expires, you have to upload your new one.

So I'm with Virgin Mobile. In the past, I used to go to the app of virgin and snap a picture of my Emirates ID and then upload it and they approve it and we're all good.

A few days ago, I got a message saying your Emirates ID is expiring. Please upload your new one. Right. So clicked on that. It said, you're signing into your UAE Pass app. Please give permission.

So I signed into the app and it said, done. Your Emirates ID is updated. So now the phone company is talking directly to the government apps, and it just makes life so much easier.

Pete: 00:25:36

So can you not buy a SIM card in Dubai unless you've got an id?

PJ: 00:25:40

In America, they call them burner phones. There's no such thing in the UAE.

If you come in as a tourist and you want to buy a SIM card, you show your passport and they issue a SIM card that's valid for as long as you're staying. So security in the UAE is pretty tight.

Pete: 00:25:59

And what's the tax situation like PJ in the Emirates?

PJ: 00:26:03

So we've got no personal tax at all. They introduced 5% VAT two, three years ago.

We didn't pay any business tax at all up to the start of this year, so they introduced a nine, 9% business tax from the start of this year. So we still in our infancy with tax and things. Our business licenses are very expensive. We have to pay visa costs for all our employees.

There's laws on medical holiday. You have to fly them back every year to their own country. So there are taxes that are not in other countries.

But, yeah, I mean, it's an easy environment to do business in.

Pete: 00:26:50

Well, you've been there 20 years, so I'm guessing you wouldn't have stayed if it wasn't.

PJ: 00:26:55

Look, it's got its drawbacks. It's very humid, very hot in the summer. I miss the greenery whenever I go to the US, it's the first thing when we land.

I just love the greenery, but otherwise it's an easy place as long as you keep your nose clean and don't get into trouble, it's a lovely place to live.

Pete: 00:27:15

Oh, well, I'm really impressed that you're making it a success, and I'll look forward to seeing how you go once you start to get your units on the ground in the States. And that's a very generous offer you've made to the listeners.

If anybody's interested in taking up on that, how is the best way to get in touch with you?

PJ: 00:27:31

You can email me on PJ. P for Papa, J for Julietecoeco.

Pete: 00:27:43

I'll put links in the notes, PJ, so that people can find that. And as I say, I'll put links to some of the videos and stuff that show the units in action at the Dubai seven? S last year.

PJ: 00:27:55

And if anybody has any comments or suggestions or things, we're always open to get some advice from people who know more than we do. We don't claim to know everything. It's been a long road, but we're getting there.

Pete: 00:28:08

That's really good. It's been really good to talk to you, PJ. I'm pleased that we've been able to do some recording.

PJ: 00:28:14

Thank you. I appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

Pete: 00:28:19

It's been a long time since we've heard from any guests on get flushed and I'm really pleased that I was able to record this episode with PJ.

He was extremely open and willing to share ideas and I'm sure that we could have kept talking for hours, as PJ said at the end, the EcoFab demonstration unit is scheduled to arrive in North America later this year and it will be available for use by restroom operators who'd like to trial vacuum flushing technology at their events. I've put links and PJ's email in the notes, so please get in touch with him to find out more and discuss your needs.

If you follow get flushed on social media, you may have seen that I've been quite busy recently.

I've already recorded some more interviews, which I'll release in the course of the next few weeks, and I'm looking for additional guests to feature on the show.

Most conversations take about an hour and there's absolutely no cost to you as a guest except your time, because I'm in New Zealand, which is a long way from anywhere. Most interviews are recorded remotely, and for that all you need is a device and some headphones.

It's really important to me that you, as the guest, are happy with the content before it's released.

Once we've finished recording, I'll edit the audio to remove all the bits we don't need to hear, add my introduction and outro, then send you a draft file to review.

Once it's approved, I'll share the episode to all the usual podcast places and send you the original file as well as links and codes so that you can share the episode or embed it into your website or social media.

Getflushed is a niche show that's aimed squarely and firmly at the portable restroom industry, which means we don't generate hundreds of thousands of downloads. However, we do get good coverage and we've got listeners in over 100 different countries and in every state in the US.

If you'd like to take part, email peteflushed dot online or look for getflushed on social media. Thank you to PJ for today's episode. I'm sure we'll hear from him again in the not too distant future. And thank you for your time.

I've been Pete and you've been listening to Get Flushed, the world's favourite sanitation podcast.